"1968 was also the year when the whole picture with SNCC was kind of beginning to decline. SNCC was talking about forming an alliance with the Black Panther Party, which didn’t work out very well for various reasons that you probably know about, and Eldridge Cleaver and so forth and so on. And so it was a whole lot of ideological confusion, confusion about where do we go from here, and there was a group in Atlanta that was very much more inclined towards Islamic beliefs and having nothing do with white folks, and Jim Forman was saying we need to study Marxism, and took a group to Africa. I mean, there was different pulls, but there was no one clear vision that prevailed at that time, and the only thing that some people were clear about was getting rid of the white folks in SNCC, but even doing that didn’t (unclear). So they didn’t know what me and Maria Varela were — nobody quite knew. Neither did we. I was just SNCC, you know? That’s all. I’m SNCC. That’s what I am. I wasn’t even thinking any other way. And I don’t think she was either, to tell you the truth. So nobody kicked us out, but nobody kicked us in, either. I don’t know. (laughs) We weren’t black; we weren’t white. At that time, as you know, there was no — the racial definition in this country was strictly black and white."