"The complexity of it all is perhaps revealed in a brief exchange which took place at a SNCC meeting between James Baldwin and Ella Baker. Someone had asked Baldwin about the role of whites in the movement. He replied, "A white man is a white man only if he says he is-but you haven't got to be white." Then Ella Baker added, "The place of the Negro is not as a Negro, but as a human being." And Baldwin said, "That's right." Later, Ella Baker returned to that idea and, noting Baldwin's exhortation that whites coming into the movement should forget they're white, said, "We too must forget we're Negro." Responding to what she detected as a rising mood of something akin to black nationalism among some SNCC workers, she said: "I can understand that as we grow in our own strength and as we flex our muscles of leadership... we can begin to feel that the other fellow should come through us. But this is not the way to create a new world.... We need to penetrate the mystery of life and perfect the mastery of life, and the latter requires understanding that human beings are human beings.""