Robert Mueller Testimony before House Judiciary Committee

"What was it about the report's context, nature, substance, that the attorney general's letter did not capture?"

"[C]ould Attorney General Barr have avoided public confusion if he had released your... executive introduction and summaries?"

"...May 30th, the Attorney General in an interview with CBS News said that... you "could have reached a decision as to whether it was criminal activity"... on the part of the President. Did the Attorney General or his staff ever tell you that he thought you should make a decision on whether the President engaged in criminal activity?"

"I agree with your March 27th letter. There was public confusion, and the President took full advantage of that confusion by falsely claiming your report found no obstruction. Let us be clear, your report did not exonerate the President. Instead, it provided substantial evidence of obstruction of justice, leaving Congress to do its duty. We shall... not shrink from that duty."

"...Volume 2, page 158. ..."The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests." Is that right?"

"And you're basically referring to senior advisors who disobeyed the President's orders like White House Counsel , Former Trump Campaign Manager . Is that right?"

"...page 158, White House Counsel Don McGahn ..."did not tell the acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President's orders." You also explained that an attempt to obstruct justice does not have to succeed to be a crime, right?"

"Simply attempting to obstruct justice can be a crime, correct?"

"So even though the President's aides refused to carry out his orders to interfere with your investigation, that is not a defense to obstruction of justice by this President, is it?"

"So to reiterate, simply trying to obstruct justice can be a crime, correct?"

"[Y]ou say that the President's efforts to influence the investigation were... "mostly unsuccessful" and that's because not all of his efforts were unsuccessful, right?"

"I was going to ask you if you could just tell me which ones you had in mind, as successful, when you wrote that sentence."

"[T]oday we've talked a lot about the separate acts by this President, but you also wrote in your report that... "[T]he overall pattern of the President's conduct towards the investigations can shed light on the nature of the President's acts and the inferences [that] can be drawn about his intent." Correct?"

"[O]n page 158... it's important for everyone to note that the President's conduct had a significant change when he realized that... the investigations were conducted to investigate his obstruction acts. So, in other words, when the American people are deciding whether the President committed obstruction of justice, they need to look at all of the President's conduct and overall pattern of behavior. Is that correct?"

"Dr. Mueller/Director Mueller... I have certainly made up my mind about whether... what we have reviewed today meets the elements of obstruction, including whether there was corrupt intent. ...[A]nyone else, including some members of Congress, would have been charged with crimes for these acts. We would not have allowed this behavior from any of the previous 44 Presidents. We should not allow it now, or for the future, to protect our democracy. ...[Y]es, we will continue to investigate, because as you clearly state at the end of your report: No one is above the law."

"[Y]ou wrote in your report that you... "determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment"... Was that, in part, because of an opinion by the Department of Justice, Office of Legal Counsel, that a sitting President can't be charged with a crime?"

"[A]t your May 29, 2019 press conference, you explained that... "the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing"... That process... is that impeachment?"

"In your report you also wrote that you did not want to... "potentially preempt Constitutional processes for addressing Presidential misconduct"... For the non-lawyers in the room, what did you mean by... "potentially preempt constitutional processes"?"

"That actually is... from page 1 of Volume 2. In the footnote... What are those constitutional processes?"

"Impeachment, correct?"

"That is one of the Constitutional processes listed in the report in the footnote, in Volume 2. Your report documents the many ways the President sought to interfere with your investigation, and you state in your report on page 10, Volume 2, that... "interfering with a congressional inquiry or investigation with corrupt intent can also constitute obstruction of justice.""

"[T]he President has told us that he intends to fight all the subpoenas. His continued efforts to interfere with investigations of his potential misconduct certainly reinforce the importance of the process the Constitution requires to... "formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing" as you cited in the report. ...[T]his hearing has been very helpful to this Committee as it exercises its Constitutional duty to determine whether to recommend against the President. I agree with you... that we all have a vital role in holding this President accountable for his actions. More than that, I believe we in Congress have a duty to demand accountability, and safeguard one of our nation's highest principles, that no one is above the law. From everything that I have heard you say here today, it's clear that anyone else would have been prosecuted based on the evidence available in your report. It now falls on us to hold President Trump accountable. ..."

"For two years leading up to the release of the Mueller report, and in the three months since, Americans were first told what to expect, and then what to believe. Collusion, we were told, was in plain sight, even if the special counsel's team didn't find it. When Mr. Mueller produced his report and Attorney General Barr provided it to every American, we read, "No American conspired with Russia to interfere in our elections," but learned the depths of Russia's malice toward America."

"The burden of proof for accusations that remain unproven is extremely high, and especially in light of the special counsel's thoroughness. We were told this investigation began as an inquiry into whether Russia meddled in our 2016 election. Mr. Mueller, you concluded they did. Russians accessed Democrat servers and disseminated sensitive information by tricking campaign insiders into revealing protected information. The investigation also reviewed whether Donald Trump, the President, sought Russian assistance as a candidate to win the presidency. Mr. Mueller concluded he did not. His family or advisers did not. In fact, the report concludes no one in the President's campaign colluded, collaborated or conspired with the Russians. The President watched the public narrative surrounding this investigation that assumes... his guilt while he knew the extent of his innocence."

"Volume 2 of Mr. Mueller's report details the President's reaction to a frustrating investigation where his innocence was established early on. The President's attitude toward the investigation was understandably negative, yet the President did not use his authority to close the investigation. He asked his lawyer if Mr. Mueller had conflicts that disqualified Mr. Mueller from the job, but he did not shut down the investigation. The President knew he was innocent. Those are the facts of the Mueller report. Russia meddled in the 2016 election. The President did not conspire with the Russians and nothing we hear... today will change those facts. But one element of this story remains: the beginnings of the FBI investigation into the President. I look forward to Mr. Mueller's testimony about what he found during his review of the origins of the investigation."

"[T]he inspector general continues to review how baseless gossip can be used to launch an FBI investigation against a private citizen, and eventually a President. Those results will be released, and we will need to learn from them to ensure government intelligence and law enforcement powers are never again used and turned on a private citizen... or a political candidate as a result of the political leanings of a handful of FBI agents."

"The origins and conclusions of the Mueller investigation are the same things: what it means to be American. Every American has a voice in our democracy. We must protect the sanctity of their voice by combating election interference. Every American enjoys the presumption of innocence and guarantee of due process. If we carry... anything away today, it must be that we increase our vigilance against foreign election interference, while we ensure our government officials don't weaponize their power against the constitutional rights guaranteed to every U.S. citizen."

"Finally, we must agree that the opportunity cost here is too high. The months we have spent investigating from this dais failed to end the border crisis or contribute to the growing job market. Instead, we have gotten stuck and it's paralyzed this committee and this House."

"...I believe this place is a place where we can actually do things and help people. Six and a half years ago, I came here to work on behalf of the people of the 9th District and this country. And we accomplished a lot in those first six years on a bipartisan basis, with many of my friends across the aisle sitting on this dais with me today. However, this year, because of the majority's dislike of this President, and the endless hearings into a closed investigation have caused us to accomplish nothing except talk about the problems of our country while our border is on fire, in crisis, and everything else is stopped. This hearing is long overdue. We've had the truth for months. No American conspired to throw our election. What we need today is to let that truth bring us confidence, and I hope Mr. Chairman, closure."

"I want to lay some foundation. ...In your press conference you said "any testimony from your office would not go beyond our report. We chose these words carefully. The work speaks for itself. I would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before Congress." Do you stand by that statement?"

"Since closing the special counsel's office in May of 2019, have you conducted any additional interviews or obtained any new information in your role as special counsel? ...Have you conducted any new interviews, any new witnesses, anything?"

"At any time in the investigation, was your investigation curtailed... or stopped, or hindered?"

"Were you or your team provided any questions by members of Congress, [or] the majority, ahead of your hearing today?"

"Given the questions that you've just answered, is it true the evidence gathered during your investigation did not establish that the President was involved in the underlying crime related to Russian election interference as stated in Volume 1, page 7?"

"So that would be a yes."

"Isn't it true the evidence did not establish that the President or those close to him were involved in the charge of Russian computer hacking or active measure conspiracies, or that the President otherwise had unlawful relationships with any Russian official, Volume 2, page 76? Correct?"

"So that is a yes. Is [it]... true your investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with Russian government in the election interference activity: Volume 1, page 2; Volume 1, page 173?"

"Although your reports states, "collusion is not some... specific offense," and you said that this morning, "or a term of art in federal criminal laws, conspiracy is." In the colloquial context, are collusion and conspiracy essentially synonymous terms? ...on page 180 of Volume 1 of your report, you wrote, "As defined in legal dictionaries, collusion is largely synonymous with conspiracy as that crime is set forth in the general federal conspiracy statute, 18 USC 371.""

"So the report says yes, they are synonymous."

"Hopefully, for finally, out of your own report, we can put to bed the collusion and conspiracy. ...Did you ever look into... other countries investigated in the Russians'... interference into our election? Were other countries investigated... or found knowledge that they had interference in our election?"

"[I]n explaining, the special counsel did not make what you called a traditional prosecution or declination decision, the report, on the bottom of page 2, Volume 2, reads as follows: "The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." Now, I read that correctly?"

"[W]hich DOJ policy or principle sets forth a legal standard that an investigated person is not exonerated if their innocence from criminal conduct is not conclusively determined? ...Where does that language come from, Director? Where is the DOJ policy that says that? ...Let me make it easier. ...Can you give me an example other than Donald Trump, where the Justice Department determined that an investigated person was not exonerated... because their innocence was not conclusively determined?"

"[Y]ou can't find it because... It doesn't exist. The special counsel's job... Nowhere does it say that you were to conclusively determine Donald Trump's innocence, or that the special counsel report should determine whether or not to exonerate him. It's not in any of the documents. It's not in your appointment order. It's not in the special counsel regulations. It's not in the OLC opinions. It's not in the Justice Manual, and it's not in the Principles of Federal Prosecution. Nowhere do those words appear together, because... it was not the special counsel's job to conclusively determine Donald Trump's innocence, or to exonerate him, because the bedrock principle of our justice system is a presumption of innocence. It exists for everyone. Everyone is entitled to it including sitting Presidents. And because there is a presumption of innocence, prosecutors never - ever need to conclusively determine it. Now... the special counsel applied this inverted burden of proof, that I can't find, and you said doesn't exist anywhere in the department policies; and you used it to write a report; and the very first line of your report... says, as you read this morning, it "authorizes the special counsel to provide the attorney general with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the special counsel." That's the very first word of your report, right?"

"Here's the problem... The special counsel didn't do that. On Volume 1, you did. On Volume 2, with respect to potential obstruction of justice, the special counsel made neither a prosecution decision or a declination decision. You made no decision. You told us this morning, and in your report, that you made no determination. So... you didn't follow the special counsel regulations. It clearly says, "Write a confidential report about decisions reached." Nowhere in here does it say, "Write a report about decisions that weren't reached." You wrote 180 pages... about decisions that weren't reached, about potential crimes that weren't charged, or decided. And... by doing that, you managed to violate every principle in the most sacred of traditions about prosecutors not offering extra-prosecutorial analysis about potential crimes that aren't charged. So Americans need to know this, as they listen to the Democrats and socialists on the other side of the aisle... that Volume 2 of this report was not authorized, under the law, to be written. It was written to a legal standard that does not exist at the Justice Department. And it was written in violation of every DOJ principle about extra-prosecutorial commentary. I agree with the chairman... when he said, "Donald Trump is not above the law." He's not. But he damn sure shouldn't be below the law, which is where Volume 2 of this report puts him."

"Now, since you decided under the OLC opinion that you couldn't prosecute a sitting President, meaning President Trump, why do we have all of this investigation of President Trump that the other side is talking about when you know that you weren't going to prosecute him?"

"[I]f you're not going to indict the President then you just continue fishing. ...[Y]ou can indict other people, but you can't indict the sitting President, right?"

"Mr. Chabot and I were on this committee during the Clinton impeachment. Now, while I recognize that the independent counsel statute under which Kenneth Starr operated is different from the special counsel statute, he, in a number of occasions in his report, stated that... "President Clinton's actions may have risen to impeachable conduct," recognizing that it is up to the House of Representatives to determine what conduct is impeachable. You never used the term "raising to impeachable conduct" for any of the 10 instances... Is it true that there's nothing in Volume 2 of the report that says that the President may have engaged in impeachable conduct?"

"[T]here are a couple of statements that you made... that said that, "This is not for me to decide," and the implication is that this is for this committee to decide. Now, you didn't use the word "impeachable conduct" like Starr did. There was no statute to prevent you from using the word "impeachable conduct." ...I go back to what Mr. Ratcliffe said... even the President is innocent until proven guilty."

"[M]y Democratic colleagues were very disappointed in your report. They were expecting you to say something along the lines of here's why President Trump deserves to be impeached, much as did relative to President Clinton back about 20 years ago. Well, you didn't, so their strategy had to change. Now they allege that there's plenty of evidence in your report to impeach the President, but the American people just didn't read it. And this hearing today is their last best hope to build up some sort of groundswell across America to impeach President Trump. That's what this is really all about today."

"On page 103 of Volume 2 of your report, when discussing the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, you referenced... "the firm that produced Steele reporting". The name of that firm was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?"