Robert Mueller Testimony before House Judiciary Committee

"How could you not have made the calculation when the regulation..?"

"[Y]ou made the decision on the Russian interference. You couldn't have indicted the President on that, and you made the decision on that. But when it came to obstruction, you threw a bunch of stuff up against the wall to see what would stick, and that is fundamentally unfair."

"OK, but... could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?"

"Ethically, under the ethical standards?"

"[Y]our team wrote... at the top of page 2, Volume 1... also on page 173..."The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities"... That's [an] accurate statement, right?"

"And I'm curious, when did you personally come to that conclusion?"

"Mr. Mueller, evidence suggests that on May 10th, 2017 at approximately 7:45 a.m., six days before the DAG, that's Deputy Attorney General, appointed you special counsel, Mr. Rosenstein called you and mentioned the appointment of a special counsel, not... necessarily that you would be appointed, but that you had a discussion of that. Is that... true?"

"[T]here's evidence that suggests that... phone call took place and that... is what was said. So let's move to the next question. Evidence suggests that also on May 12th, 2017, five days before the DAG appointed you special counsel, you met with Mr. Rosenstein in person. Did you discuss the appointment of special counsel then, not necessarily you, but that there would be a special counsel."

"It has nothing to with the indictment. It has to do with Special Counsel, and whether you discussed that with Mr. Rosenstein. Evidence also suggested, on May 13th, four days before you were appointed special counsel, you met with... former Attorney General Sessions and Rosenstein, and you spoke about Special Counsel. Do you remember that?"

"...And on May 16th, the day before you were appointed special counsel, you met with the President and . ...And the discussion of the position of the FBI director took place. Do you remember that?"

"And did you discuss at any time in that meeting Mr. Comey's termination?"

"Did you discuss at any time in that meeting the potential appointment of a Special Counsel? Not necessarily you, but just in general terms?"

"How many times did you speak to Mr. Rosenstein before [May 17, which is the day you got appointed, regarding the appointment of special counsel? ..."

"How many times did you speak with Mr. Comey about any investigations pertaining to the Russia prior to May 17, 2017? ..."

"You had three discussions with about your appointment as special counsel May 10, May 12, and May 13, correct?"

"Then you met with the President on the 16th with present. And then on the 17th, you were formally appointed as Special Counsel. Were you meeting with the President on the 16th with knowledge that you were under consideration for appointment of Special Counsel?"

"The answer is no?"

"describes your office as the team of partisans. And as additional information's coming to light, there's a growing concern that political bias caused important facts to be omitted from your report in order to cast the President unfairly in a negative light. For example, John Dowd, the President's lawyer, leaves a message with Michael Flynn's lawyer... November 2017. The edited version in your report makes it appear that he was improperly asking for confidential information, and that's all we know from your report, except that the judge in the Flynn case ordered the entire transcript released; in which Dowd makes it crystal clear that's not what he was suggesting. So my question's why did you edit the transcript to hide the exculpatory part of the message?"

"Well, you omitted... it. You quoted the part where he says "we need some kind of heads up just for the sake of protecting all of our interests, if we can", but you omitted the portion where he says, "without giving up any confidential information.""

"You... extensively discussed 's activities with Paul Manafort. And you described him as... "A Russian/Ukrainian political consultant," and "longtime employee of Paul Manafort, assessed by the FBI to have ties to Russian intelligence." And again, that's all we know from your report, except we've since learned from news articles that Kilimnik was actually a U.S. State Department intelligence source, yet nowhere in your report is he so identified. Why was that fact omitted?"

"Did you interview Konstantin Kilimnik?"

"And... yet that is... the basis of your report. Again, the problem we're having is we have to rely on your report for an accurate reflection of the evidence, and we're starting to find out... that's not... true. For example... your report famously links Russian Internet troll farms with the Russian government. Yet, at a hearing on May 28th in the Concord Management IRA prosecution that you initiated, the judge excoriated both you and Mr. Barr for producing no evidence to support this claim. Why did you suggest Russia was responsible for the troll farms, when, in court, you've been unable to produce any evidence to support it?"

"But... you have left the clear impression throughout the country, through your report, that... it was the Russian government behind the troll farms. And yet, when you're called upon to provide actual evidence in court, you fail to do so."

"In... fact, the judge... considered holding prosecutors in criminal contempt. She backed off only after your hastily called press conference the next day, in which you retroactively made the distinction between the Russian government and the Russia troll farms. Did your press conference on May 29th have anything to do with the threat to hold your prosecutors in contempt, the previous day, for publicly misrepresenting the evidence? ..."

"The fundamental problem... is that... we've got to take your word [that] your team faithfully, accurately, impartially and completely described all of the underlying evidence in the Mueller report. And we're finding more and more instances where this just isn't the case. And it's starting to look like... having desperately tried and failed to make a legal case against the President, you made a political case instead. You put it in a paper sack, lit it on fire, dropped it on our porch, rang the doorbell, and ran."

"Then... why is contradictory information continuing to come out?"

"Mr. Lieu was asking you... "the reason you didn't indict the President was because of the OLC opinion." And you answered, that is correct. But that is not what you said in the report, and it's not what you told Attorney General Barr. ...[I]n fact, in a joint statement that you [your office] released with DOJ on may 29th after your press conference... a joint statement with the Department Of Justice... "the Attorney General has previously stated that the Special Counsel repeatedly affirmed that he was not saying that but for the OLC opinion, he would have found the President obstructed justice. The Special Counsel's report and his statement today made clear that the office concluded it would not reach a determination one way or the other, whether the President committed a crime. There is no conflict between these statements." So Mr. Mueller, do you stand by your joint statement with DOJ you issued on May 29th..?"

"[M]y conclusion is that what you told Mr. Lieu really contradicts what you said in the report; and specifically, what you said, apparently repeatedly, to Attorney General Barr... and then you issued a joint statement, on May 29th, saying that the Attorney General has previously stated that the Special Counsel repeatedly affirmed that he was not saying but for the OLC report, that we would have found the President obstructed justice. So I just say there's a conflict. ...Mr. Mueller, there's been a lot of talk today about firing the Special Counsel and curtailing the investigation. ...Were you ever fired as Special Counsel, Mr. Mueller?"

"Were you allowed to complete your investigation unencumbered?"

"[Y]ou resigned as Special Counsel when you closed up the office in late May... 2019. Is that correct?"

"[O]n April 18th, the Attorney General... held a press conference in conjunction with the public release of your report. Did Attorney General Barr say anything inaccurate either in his press conference or his March 24th letter to Congress summarizing the principle conclusions of your report?"

"I don't see how... that could be since A.G. Barr's letter detailed the principle conclusions of your report and you have said before, ...that there wasn't anything inaccurate. In fact, you had this joint statement. But... let me go on to another question. ...[R]ather than purely relying on the evidence provided by witnesses and documents, I think you relied a lot on media. ...[H]ow many times you cited "The Washington Post" in your report?"

"I counted about 60 times. How many times did you cite "The New York Times"? ..."

"I counted about 75 times. How many times did you cite Fox News?"

"About 25 times. ...[I]t looks like Volume 2 is mostly regurgitated press stories. ...[T]here's almost nothing in Volume 2 that I couldn't already hear or know simply by having a $50 dollar cable news subscription. However, your investigation cost American taxpayers $25 million dollars. ...[Y]ou cited media reports nearly 200 times.., then in a... small footnote, number 7, page 15... Volume 2 ..."this section summarizes and cites various news stories not for the truth of the information contained in the stories but rather to place Candidate Trump's response to those stories in context." Since nobody but lawyers reads footnotes, are you concerned that the American public took the embedded news stories..."

"[A]re you familiar with the now expired independent counsel statute. It's a statue under which was appointed."

"The order appointing me as special counsel directed our office to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. This included investigating any links or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. It also included investigating efforts to interfere with or obstruct our investigation. Throughout the investigation I continually stressed two things to the team... First) we needed to do our work as thoroughly as possible and expeditiously as possible. ...Second) the investigation needed to be conducted fairly and with absolute integrity. Our team would not leak, or take other actions that could compromise the integrity... All decisions were made based on the facts and the law. ...[W]e charged more than 30 defendants with committing federal crimes, including 12 officers of the Russian military. Seven defendants have been convicted or pled guilty."

"Certain of the charges we brought remain pending today. And for those matters... the indictments contain allegations, and every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. In addition to the criminal charges... as required... we submitted a confidential report to the attorney general... The report set forth the results of our work and the reasons for our charging and declination decisions. The attorney general later made the report largely public. ...I made a few limited remarks... about our report when we closed the special counsel's office in May... [C]ertain points... bear emphasis. First) our investigation found that the Russian government interfered in our election in sweeping and systematic fashion. Second) the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities. We did not address , which is not a legal term; rather, we focused on whether the evidence was sufficient to charge any member of the campaign with taking part in a criminal conspiracy, and it was not. Third) our investigation of efforts to obstruct the investigation and lie to investigators was of critical importance. Obstruction of justice strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth and to hold wrongdoers accountable. Finally) as described in Volume 2 of our report, we investigated a series of actions, by the President, towards the investigation. Based on Justice Department policy and principles of fairness, we decided we would not make a decision as to whether the President committed a crime. ...it remains our decision today."

"It is unusual for a prosecutor to testify about a criminal investigation, and given my role as a prosecutor, there are reasons why my testimony... will necessarily be limited. First) public testimony could affect several ongoing matters. In some of these matters, court rules or judicial orders limit the disclosure of information to protect... the fairness of the proceedings, and consistent with longstanding Justice Department policy, it would be inappropriate for me to comment in any way that could affect an ongoing matter. Second) the Justice Department has asserted privileges, concerning investigative information and decisions, ongoing matters within the Justice Department, and deliberations within our office. These are Justice Department privileges that I will respect. The department has released the letter discussing the restrictions of my testimony. I, therefore, will not be able to answer questions about certain areas that I know are of public interest. For example, I am unable to address questions about the initial opening of the FBI's Russia investigation, which occurred months before my appointment; or matters related to the so-called Steele dossier. These matters are subject of ongoing review by the department. Any questions on these topics should, therefore, be directed to the FBI or the Justice Department. ...[O]ur report contains our findings and analysis, and the reasons for the decisions we made. We conducted an extensive investigation over two years. In writing the report, we stated the results of our investigation with precision. We scrutinized every word. I do not intend to summarize or describe the results of our work in a different way in the course of my testimony today. ...[T]he report is my testimony, and I will stay within that text. ...I will not comment on the actions of the attorney general or of Congress. I was appointed as a prosecutor, and I intend... to adhere to that role and to the department's standards that govern it."

"I'll be joined today by Deputy Special Counsel . Mr. Zebley... served as my chief of staff. Mr. Zebley was responsible for the day-to-day oversight on the investigations conducted by our office. ...I also want to... say thank you to the attorneys, the FBI agents, the analysts and professional staff who helped us conduct this investigation in a fair and independent matter. These individuals... were of the highest integrity."

"Two years ago you returned to public service to lead the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections. ...Over the course of your investigation you obtained criminal indictments against 37 people and entities. You secured the conviction of President Trump's campaign chairman, his deputy campaign manager, his national security advisor and his personal lawyer, among others. In the Paul Manafort case alone you recovered as much as $42 million, so that the cost of your investigation to the taxpayers approaches zero. ...In Volume 1, you find that the Russian government attacked our 2016 elections... "in a sweeping and systematic fashion," and that the attacks were designed to benefit the Trump campaign. Volume 2 walks us through 10 separate incidents of possible obstruction of justice, where... "President Trump attempted to exert undue influence over your investigation." The President's behavior included... "public attacks on the investigation, nonpublic efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate"... Among the most shocking... President Trump ordered his White House counsel to have you fired, and then to lie and deny that it had happened, he ordered his former campaign manager to convince the recused attorney general to step in and limit your work, and he attempted to prevent witnesses from cooperating with your investigation."

"Although department policy barred you from indicting the President for this conduct, you made clear that he is not exonerated. Any other person who acted in this way would have been charged with crimes, and in this nation, not even the President is above the law. Which brings me to this committee's work. Responsibility, integrity and accountability: These are the marks by which we who serve on this committee will be measured as well. Director Mueller, we have a responsibility to address the evidence that you have uncovered. You recognized as much when you said, quote, "The Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrong doing"... That process begins with the work of this committee. We will follow your example... We will act with integrity. We will follow the facts where they lead. We will consider all appropriate remedies. ...We will do this work because there must be accountability for the conduct described in your report, especially as it relates to the President."

"Director Mueller, the President has repeatedly claimed that your report found there was no obstruction and that it completely and totally exonerated him, but that is not what your report said, is it?"

"[R]eading from page 2 of Volume 2... "If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment"... does that say there was no obstruction?"

"[Y]ou were actually unable to conclude the President did not commit obstruction of justice, is that correct?"

"So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice, is that correct?"

"And what about total exoneration? Did you actually totally exonerate the President?"

"Now, in fact, your report expressly states that it does not exonerate the President."

"And your investigation actually found... "multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian interference and obstruction investigations." Is that correct?"

"[C]an you explain in plain terms what that finding means so the American people can understand it?"