"We use thinking as a tool, but the knowing that arises because of its use is above and beyond the process of thinking; it leads to our not being fooled by our thinking any more. You recognize that all thinking is merely the movement of the mind, and also that the knowing is not born and doesn't die. What do you think all this movement called "mind" comes out of? What we talk about as the mind—all the activity—is just the conventional mind. It's not the real mind at all. What is real just IS, it's not arising and it's not passing away."