"[journalist:] what can you tell us about the carnages? I asked her who is behind the carnages. [Gelli:] but you see, there have always been these massacres here. And there always will be. Oh yes, because there is no order. And also in recent times, because in the early days there were no massacres. They possibly took place after '60; before 1960 they never occurred. It's from the '60s: and why am I talking about the '60s? Because in 1960 there was still a certain condition that the people had emerged from a dictatorship of fascism - call it the dictatorship of fascism - and the people had gotten used to working and had to go to work because otherwise they would have been punished and wouldn't have had to go on strike because with the strike it is not that it occurs; the strike makes people more poor."