"Stuart Newman: It's kind of interesting how the ways of thinking about this evolves. I agree that these cloned animals are not normal. Dr. Jaenisch 's work has given ample proof of this. Moreover, the tetraploid embryos are also abnormal, and Dr. Jaenisch said before that in making clonal embryos to generate these stem cells you don't make a new individual, because it's an individual that is genetically precedented, that is, it's genetically derived from a prototype. But back in 1997, when Dolly was first cloned, although there were people that said we should clone humans and people that said we shouldn't clone humans, it seemed like everybody agreed that if you do clone a human, it'll be a human. But now, people are saying, bioethicists, and I just heard Dr. Jaenisch say it, that when you make these clones by nuclear transfer, you're making something that's like ... more like a manufactured item. It's not really anew individual. Therefore, you could potentially do anything you want with it. If you wanted to grow it up to an abnormal full term whatever, it wouldn't be a person. As Dr. Jaenisch said, you're not creating a new individual by doing this, so you have something that you are now at liberty to do whatever you want with..."