"Milton] felt you could influence the political sphere. So he wrote a lot about politics--of course--and public policy. Not politics--public policy. But at the same time, I think he believed, or at least it was his public persona, that he was also a scientist. That his scientific work was different. That he could, as one EconTalk guest said: He could put on his science hat, and then take it off and put on his ideology hat. And my claim is that that's a delusion--I don't mean to be critical about Milton, who I'm a big fan of, and incredibly important person in my education and in my life. But I think it is--so I don't know how aware or unaware he was about it. I don't want to say he was deluded. But I think many economists are deluded into thinking, and want to believe that they can wear those two hats separately. And it's very self-serving. We need to confront the fact that it's very much in our interest to pretend to the world that we have a scientific aspect to our work that is free of values. And I think that's--I think it's fundamentally deceptive, and dishonest."